Heat pump installers

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#1

Hi,
Any recommendations for air source heat pump installers around Manchester.
It seems Octopus heat pumps may take a while to install around Manchester area.

thanks

#2

Hi there,

Just wondering if you ended up with a good installer? Iā€™m based near Stockport and looking for an installer who can help fix a problem with metering on our heat pump. Unfortunately our original installer has now gone out of businessā€¦

Thanks,

Lynden

#3

Lynden,

I used Energy Centre to install my HP last summer. They were really flexible with the design and installation. I havenā€™t had any issues so far. Their contact details are About - The Energy Centre North West

regards
Jaise

#4

Hi Jaise - thank you very much for that., Iā€™ll try them.

#5

Wondering if anyone here has had a British Gas survey for an ASHP and then gone on to have one installed by them, or have heard anything about their offer ā€“ whether good, bad or indifferent.

I heard they were in the area, and had a BG gas engineer here for nearly 5 hours today, doing room by room heat loss calculations, checking electricity supply, location for heat pump etc.

He hasnā€™t been trained in installing or commissioning ASHPs, and confessed that BG donā€™t have nearly enough people so outsource most of the installations.

He struggles to complete 2 surveys in a day on a (in his words) ā€˜crapā€™ platform and says BG wonā€™t invest in software to enable him and his colleagues to calculate heat losses more efficiently.

He couldnā€™t tell me how many heat pumps BG have installed so far.

The initial over the phone fixed price ā€˜quoteā€™ of Ā£8899 was valid for 6 months, and included upgrade of radiators and pipework. But this turned out to be more of a finger in the air quote.

For context my house is c 150m2 (EPC is 155m2, CC Home Energy Plan is 138.6m2). Detached, 4 beds, partly insulated.

The quote received at the end of the visit today was about 20% more at Ā£10,699 (quote shows full cost of Ā£18,207.14 with VAT adjustment to 0% for radiators and installation, BUS grant and ā€˜Fixed Price Matchā€™. This quote is also only valid for 28 days - quite a difference from the 6 months mentioned previously. This is for:

  • 8kW Daikin HP

  • 25l buffer tank

  • 150l Mixergy unvented DHW tank (recommendation of 240l for 4 bed house, but given itā€™s just me here at the momentā€¦)

  • Design target temperature 20 degrees (rather than the standard 21 degrees)

  • Design flow temperature 45 degrees (alternative was 50 degrees)

  • replacing all 11 existing radiators plus towel rail

  • replacing a small amount of pipework

  • adding two new radiators, plus pipework

  • 5 year heat pump warranty

  • 2 years interest-free credit

They offer a ā€˜warm homeā€™ guarantee ā€“ if the installed system doesnā€™t keep you as warm as your gas boiler, then they will give you your money back. I asked how this worked, and he mentioned monitoring and refunding the full installation cost. I cheekily suggested that this might pay for someone else to set it up properly :innocent: (that didnā€™t go down too well), and said he thought they might offer to put a gas boiler back in for free. It sounds as if BG are just dipping their toes in the water, but not ready to invest a lot yet.

SCOP of 3.5 for 50 degree system, and 3.8 for 45 degree system was mentioned, but I took this with a very big pinch of salt!

Itā€™s not the right time for me to do the switch from gas to ASHP, as Iā€™m awaiting help from PPR on various retrofit measures, and wanted to get a few more years from my 2018 boiler, but as they are surveying in Manchester it seemed a good opportunity to start comparing quotes from installers, and practise asking the right questions.

Iā€™m assuming that bigger radiators are always a good idea, but at the expense of embedded carbon. Some of the radiators were in the house when I moved in 30 years ago. The newest are more than 15 years old. Iā€™m also assuming that as more retrofit is carried out, efficiency (and thus running costs) will only improve, as well as comfort. And assume that the 2018 Viessman gas boiler has some resale value.

I took another look at https://heatpumpmonitor.org/ after he left, and realised Iā€™d forgotten to ask what the calculated whole house heat demand was for comparison purposes. What else should I have asked? And what else should I be taking into account?

Thanks for any comments.

#6

ā€œBGā€ stands for ā€œBritish Gasā€. The clue is in the name.

If a company will guarantee comfort or refund the cost there is an incentive for them to overspecify the system. I have have a Daiken 6kW for a 152m2 solid walled semi. No additional plumbing required. No doubt I would be happy with the performance if virtually all the plumbing was upgraded, at my expense, but I am happier having the option to replace or add radiators as is subsequently deemed necessary.

An over specified system is more expensive to install and more expensive to run. It is installations like this that give heat pumps a bad name.

I should add that I had a very good idea of what my house needed and had to get many quotes before I was offered a satisfactory installation.

#7

Thanks Tim. Iā€™m not seriously considering BG by the way, this is a first exercise in understanding more about what to be asking. Through monitoring the temperature in different rooms, I have a fair idea of which rooms are losing most heat and which radiators need replacing i.e. take longest to warm up and struggle to maintain temperature on cold days, and thatā€™s less than half of them. I did some rough calculations a while ago, which suggested a 7kW pump, so I didnā€™t think 8kw was hugely oversized. I was expecting BG to try to sell me something much bigger!

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#8

From my experience and that of others I know, many installers are put off by knowledgeable customers. It does at least seem that your BG energy surveyor knew what he was doing, or at least trying to do.

7 years ago I was quoted for an 8kW system. I have made a few improvements since then and was happy to get a 6kW one.

I suggest that as part of your preparation works you could upgrade your known problem radiators with massively oversized ones. Gradually reduce your boiler temperature until it is running at heat pump optimum temperatures. You are then ready for a simple slot in replacement. My own boiler ran at 40Ā°C except in really cold winter spells, when I raised the temperature to 45Ā°C. I was aiming to get lower but when the BUS came along I thought I should take advantage while I had the chance and jumped ship.

Old Radiators - How Many BTUs Radiated?
#9

Agree he was reasonably knowledgeable, but most likely working to a fairly rigid template of BG requirements - i.e. if in any doubt upgrade the radiators to avoid any comeback.

IMy plan is to get the obvious radiators replaced before this winter, and play around again with flow temperatures.

1 Like
#10

When choosing a radiator look at

With a heat pump a radiator cannot be too big. Aesthetically I expect that it can!

#11

Hi - thatā€™s really interesting. I am in the process of getting 2 quotes for ASHP for my newbuild (EPC B) 4 bed house - Daikin one with a regional installer looks to be about Ā£13k - Ā£5k grant. I have also been in touch with Ebac (who design and make ASHPs in the UK! and washing machines and dehumidifiers) - https://www.ebac.com/ and they are going to do me a quote shortly, so it will be good to compare the differences.

P.S. 150L mixergy should be fine, you donā€™t need as much as a normal one

#12

The higher the temperature of your reservoir the smaller it needs to be but to my mind, if you have space for it, it is better to have a lower temperature high volume store than a high temperature low volume one. Energy losses will be less.